Are you juggling a job, raising a family and starting a business? If so, our guest today, Janet Kafadar, will be the right episode to watch.
Janet is a business coach for startups. Her easy and relatable approach, combined with realistic and practical advice, works for busy moms and dads. Janet is the host of the podcast “Build Your Biz on 20 Mins a Day”.
In this episode we discuss:
- Making the transition from having a boss to being a boss
- Why motivation and mindset are key ingredients to enjoying your business
- Dealing with the imposter syndrome – by getting a thick skin
We hope this episode helps you learn keys to making the leap from a traditional job, to starting your own business, while juggling the needs of your family.
Josh Fonger: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Work the System podcast, where we help entrepreneurs make more and work less using systems. And I'm your host, Josh Fonger. Today we have a special guest. We have Janet Kafadar, an online business coach who helps other coaches, entrepreneurs and experts along their journey to building the sustainable, profitable online business. Janet is a busy mom of three kids under eight, and she's personally experienced the frustration overwhelm feeling stuck in her own business. And today, she coaches and teaches women and men building their online business empires after dark while working a day job, raising a family and everything in between. Okay, Janet, I'm very excited to interview you today and learn some of your secrets to making this happen. But before we do, what's the backstory? How'd you get into this? This line of work?
Janet Kafadar: [00:00:48] Awe, thank you. Thank you for having me on, Josh.. I really appreciate it. And I'm pleased to be chatting with your audience today. Yes. So my backstory. Oh, my goodness. So I started my business in a when my son was just a few months old, and I; prior to that I worked very much for management consultancy and a lot of learning development work, which means creating a training program, some management skills, leadership, mission intelligence, all of that stuff for government departments here in Australia. And so that was great. And when I had my son, I realized, you know, I don't want to go back and work for anyone else, which is pretty much the story for most people who have a family or have their first child to realize. Actually, I don't want to do this, too. And it just wasn't going to fit. And I had many situations where my son was falling ill and going to daycare,and all of that stuff. And I was having to run home off from work and feeling incredibly guilty. And so I was kind of thinking, well, what is it that I can do? How can I kind of start this business? What is it I, skills that I can offer. And so at the very beginning, I saw that as a V.A., as it did that for a little bit. Keeping in mind, I had about a 4 to 6 month old baby and trying to be a V.A. and go work with clients on the other side of the world. And then I wasn't sleeping. The baby wasn't sleeping in. Oh my god, complete hot mess. So that didn't work out. So and then continued, I went back to work. I went and had another job and realized that there was this kind of whole space of creating online courses. You know, it's what the typical one of those days like, what am I doing with my life? And I had stumbled across to like a friend Bouchard video or something. And then and then it kind of all opened up from that's how I got this whole space. Like, how did he create this course? How are people doing this? I realized that my skills at the time really lent itself to the work I'd done before in that management consultant. And I built an agency while still working at a day job and raising my family. Orchestration agency that helped entrepreneurs create online courses. So we took pretty much everything the curriculum design, a tech stuff, the design, all of that is completely took over. And so it wasn't very long. I did that for about nine months. While both working a day job, covering some of the maternity leave. And then I was at a point where I could leave that job. But when I did that for about three and a half, four years and only up until recently, probably about 18 months ago, I decided I just didn't I didn't like it anymore. I wasn't enjoying it. I completely fell out of love for the work that I was doing. And also the landscape had changed a lot from when I first started to that point. And I got to a point where I'm going to do like do I can go off to work on something. So how do you filter out so far? You've got this rhythm going. Clients are coming in. People know, you know, you get referrals, et cetera, et cetera. And suddenly I was about to close it down. It was kind of heart breaking. But I just wasn't enjoying it. So I took was going to say I took a hiatus, but something happened. The universe, God, whatever it is, must have been listening to my struggles because someone contacted me and headhunted me to work on a project for a local organization here to do some consulting work for them. And it was almost my exit strategy from my own business to do something completely different. And the work and the project itself was huge, which meant that I wouldn't have been able to really continue with the client work that I was doing privately and site, no, projects I had press them all down and then decided that, okay, well, I'm going to go in and do consulting work. And it was almost the breath of fresh air. And what I needed to kind of get some clarity. And some space, know mental bandwidth to figure out my next move, and then I decided my coaching is where it's at for me and I and I'd always loved that. Always loves doing that. When I was when I had my agency, I love the fact that I could come up with a strategy and real plan to help my clients. And that's how I fell in to this area of online business coaching and really wanted to help women just like myself when I was first starting out. We were working a job, raising a family, trying to juggle all the things and then trying to get that business going as well. Really helping them with the strategy side of things. Yes, that's how it's come about.
Josh Fonger: [00:05:38] Wow. That's a great Segway to where I want to go, which a lot people I work with have this struggle with a jumping off point. But before I do, I've got to ask that question selfishly. Which about. Which is about. Just curious about. Which has to do with course creation. So I've been kind of following the course creation space for last decade. But you know more about it than I do. So what has changed? Because you please to sell junk courses for three grand easily ten years ago getting more competitive now. And so what is the future, of course, creation for people who have online businesses or physical businesses? Do you see the price continuing to go down and do you see it just becoming more commoditized? What is the what is the future of course creation as an industry? Just you option.
Janet Kafadar: [00:06:25] Yeah. Yeah. So I really see. Cause creation, something needs to change. And the reason that I kind of fell out of love for the what I was doing is because it felt it was feeling very sales based. You know, people have the amazing sales pages on all of this stuff and then you get into it and it would be complete junk. And from my perspective, nothing to engage, to engage the student, nothing to help them move forward. And also the online course platforms that are around at the moment, except for one one that I absolutely love, they don't have any level of engagement to engage the person inside of that, give them points, you know, activities. Keep them engaged, keep excited, you know, will unlock certain areas, nothing like that. It just was feeling really stale. And it was always like I was trying to do that for my clients, but they weren't really understanding the value or the reasoning behind that. It was more so that they just wanted to make cause to be able to make more money and said they to sell it and then just leave it. And I was always trying to say, like, what? You can't do that you still need to be there to engage them. So make sure that they get the outcome that you have promised them or otherwise, you know. That's just fraud. I just I just did. And it just didn't resonate with me anymore. And so, yes, that's really why I stopped, stopped doing it. And it's probably quite a big stand to take. But I just felt that the online course platform is what measuring up to the standard that I wanted to be able to help my; my clients with unless they were going to pay absolutely thousands for maybe a custom built platform or something like that. And just the clients that I was working with weren't really understanding the value behind why it's important to engage your students and make sure that they get an outcome or otherwise. It's just having five testimonials. Where people have gotten results is not enough when one hundred and fifty people bought. It's just that the state can't do that. So yeah, it just didn't resonate. So that's kind of where I see it, going. I do see it kind of sitting at the same kind of riding along eyeballs. I think that's people will stop the people that value transformation, getting a transformation for that client. We'll be looking at ways to engage that community and reach the people that for a lot more definitely see this happen.
Josh Fonger: [00:09:01] I totally agree. Well, yeah, I couldn't say it better, but same kind of thing. That's why we we do all live stuff and it's human to human interaction because just the results are so much better. So.
Janet Kafadar: [00:09:12] Absolutely.
Josh Fonger: [00:09:15] Its More with more work. But it was enough on that. So back to you here. Back to what you do now. Very interesting. So so let's just paint some scenarios, because I have let's see if I can't think of a client that I have off the top of my head. So, OK, so I've got a client now who he has worked as a distributor for adult beverage company. So he's got a full time job, right. He's making sales is making about 80 grand a year. And he wants to transition into doing online marketing services. He got a lot of skills, hes got a background in it. He has a Web site and he's afraid to make the jump because he feels like he's got to do an all or nothing jump. How do you how do you tend to that situation? Because. A Web site he has made a life yet and he's afraid of losing his job. He's making 80 grand a year. How does he how does he deal with that situation?
Janet Kafadar: [00:10:08] Yeah. So one of the things I always tell my clients is, do you have to say the business that he wants to start? Is it is it a conflicts of interest of the organization that he works for?
Josh Fonger: [00:10:20] In this case? No.
Janet Kafadar: [00:10:23] Well, then that's fine. The second question is, does he have any anything in his contract that says that he can't have some sort of public facing a side business? Now, the reason I ask that is because some organizations don't like whatever you during your private time is completely fine. But I had another client who was a lawyer where she couldn't, but she has a side business, but her face isn't the face of that. And you don't know that its her. And so and so I would just make sure that he checks with the HR team or something like that and just find out if there's any causes around that in his contract or anything. If he doesn't, then it's awesome.
Josh Fonger: [00:11:05] He doesn't. But it's more of just the reality of what his boss and his managers are. Hey, where are you? You know, you don't seem to be working as hard anymore and looks like you're really busy in this other company.
Janet Kafadar: [00:11:16] Yeah. Yeah.
Josh Fonger: [00:11:17] Maybe we want to fire you now. So.
Janet Kafadar: [00:11:19] Their not going to fire him. So what I would say to him is that published the Web site, put it out there. And that fact that he has is the fear that almost all of us have, like, oh, my God, what will my family say, what will my boss say and what will so and so` say? But the reality is, is that just as you show up and you do your work, that you are paid to do that you know that you are hired for that. You know, your being paid for every two weeks, every month. Right. You do it and you do it the best that you have never done before, because you're proving to yourself, your family, that your employers as well, that's you know, you're still working. Exact same. There's nothing that they can fault you on. And you still then publish your Web site and you do that. What? But you don't need to work like crazy hours after work as well to be able to, you know, get the business guy. And if he has, you know, that fear of what will people say? The reality is that people will probably like High-Five him and be like this is amazing. Great work. So please, that you're doing this. This is fantastic. And it's mostly in our heads that we think, oh, my God, everyone's gonna like hate me. And they going to think, who am I? That imposter syndrome tense, to come in, who are you to to have a side business? Who are you to eventually want it the right thing, you know? So that would be my tips to him. Don't worry about it. Do not worry about what other people are going to think. You going to have to, you know, in business is, you know, just a Josh that you're gonna have to. Got a thick skin. And really most the time you just you just write of it and you have to just kind of let it roll off your back. And if he wants to make that transition, one of the things that I would say is that don't leap yet. Do not leap until you re at a comfortable place. But you're making you're almost a point where you consistently making a certain amount of money. So whatever his goal is, whether it's 5K, 10K, whatever it is, at least to a point that you released halfway and you are consistently kind of bringing in money and you have almost a system down pat, then that's the point where you can start thinking, OK, right. I think I've got this. I know I'm doing because then at that point, you know that once you just need extra time to be able to work on your business, which will then is like rinse, repeat. You can still keep doing the same thing over and over again. Do not leap until you have that that consistent revenue coming in. Because otherwise, that's my point. You don't need to. Don't leave that safety net that's holding you there and keeping things afloat. It's not worth it. And I've seen that happen too much. Oh, my God. No, you're not ready yet.
Josh Fonger: [00:14:08] I have. I have seen it to. Well so tell us about time management. Because, you know, in your story, with your job and the kids, this and that how you help people with manage that time? So if they do, all of us using our example. So I've got a dentist I work with. And so she runs her dental practice. She's a dentist, but she wants to be a coach. Right. She wants to be speaker and she has kids. So how would she make that leap happen realistically?
Janet Kafadar: [00:14:36] Yes. Yeah. Exactly. So for her and I say this to my clients all the time. You need to build your business on 20 minutes a day, even if you are changing direction. 20 minutes now we all everyone can put their hand up. We all spend 20 minutes scrolling on Facebook or Instagram or something or watching YouTube video for Really? When you didn't really need to. So if we if you kind of eliminate that, change your frame of thinking and think, okay, 20 minutes a day is what I'm going to give myself, whether you are coming from what your clients. She's had a really long day at practice. Maybe it's having to do things for the kids or whatever it is. Spend 20 minutes doing something, whereas either research-based or connecting with someone like that, working or whatever it is you want to call it, reaching out to someone 20 minutes a day to be able to build your business. And that's where the action and the transformation and that no changes in your business happen when you do that. It's almost like a compounding effect. Nice. 20 minutes, 20 minutes, 20 minutes, 20 minutes over a month. You can achieve so much. So that would be my tip to her. So they put down your phone or whatever it is. One of the things that I used to do for myself. I tell my clients to do this as well is without your phone. And I say this is research based activities. Let's either the research based or connecting. Get out your phone, Download Google Doc. Thought that Google Docs app to your phone and start brainstorming at least 10 to five people that you can reach out to. Everyone's got email on the phone. You can reach out to you to connect, to let them know what you're doing, to let them know what's going on. To either connect with them, let them know what you're up to. You want to find out what they're up to as well. All of that stuff, that's where business is and everything kind of takes place in those early stages. You know how using the connections you already have and not thinking, oh, I need to run Facebook ads to get my business going. No. God, no. You're not there yet. It's not what you need right now. And so. Yeah. That's why I tell her that. So twenty minutes a day. Start building at that. Start being a really intentional about that. Like no one can talk to me for the next 20 minutes and then we can watch a favorite Netflix show. You know, like that's what we're gonna do.
Josh Fonger: [00:17:09] Yeah. Thats just a realistic bar that everyone can do. I think that's. And I think most people are they're too impatient. So they want the results faster and they know it can take about a hundred hours. And so. So they just never get started. But I think. So you work 20 minutes and then you feel satisfied. You reward yourself. But they do it again the next day and the next day. And like you said, the company fact is there. You played a long game. As long as you have money come in the bank from your day job. I suppose.
Janet Kafadar: [00:17:39] That's right. That's right. You're playing the long game and businesses don't get built overnight. They are not the overnight success stories that you see. One example I like to give overtime. So I like Lady Gaga. I'm a big fan of hers. When she first came out on the scene, I can't remember now. Maybe it's 10 years ago, it was 10 years ago, she exploded. Everyone's like, oh, my God, where is this girl come from? She's amazing. etc. She's just started. Little did they know she'd been working her tail off. No. Working small bars in New York and performing for like five, six. God knows how many years more before then. And she had a huge hit that came out. And then everyone thought she was an overnight success, but she wasn't. She'd been working hard. And that's exactly how you need to look at your business when you're building it. You know, you're doing all of these things. And, yes, you may get that when something huge will happen later on down the track. But it's not it's not something that happens overnight. It happens. Five years, previous, six years, previous, before anything really kind of comes together to play the long game. It's not an overnight success.
Josh Fonger: [00:18:57] Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. Then actually, when they do it with the big break does come, you're ready for it because you actually have been committed in the short term or the long term in preparation for it. That's right. That's right. So when you work with people who want to get started in the coaching and consulting speaking industries, the ones that you've done really well with, what should they do to get their first clients? Let say they are doing the 20 minutes a day, but eventually they come to the point where they've got to start making some money. What is the tips for that?
Janet Kafadar: [00:19:31] Yeah so far; So hopefully inside of that time when they've been researching and whether they be connecting with people, they actually probably already know who those people, like, they'll have a probably a pretty clear idea of some clients or some people that will be perfect clients for the work that they do. And also within that, phase as well, its going back a little bit. They will know the problems that their idol clients have inside out. You have. To know your cause inside out backwards. Back to front, because if you don't, you can't connect with them. You just can't connect with them on a level that they meet. They recognize that they need your support. So the next thing that I would say to do is either put together an offer. It doesn't need anything fancy. Be on Google's Google Docs piece of paper. Write down an offer that you think will be best to support them. Whether that's a consulting package to come up with a strategy, to work closely or co-create with them or whether it is a coaching package that you think will work best for them. And then ask them. For that; Ask them if you know I understand, we've had a chat a while back and I've been doing my research and these are the things that have been that I've found out from other people that I've been connecting with and I'm putting together this offer or this coaching program or this consulting package. I think you'd be a great fit for it or X, Y, Z reason X, Y, Z problems. I will help you do X, Y, Z, solve this problem. Do you think that this is something that you'd be interested in? Or you can even show them what you have got and then you can ask them for their feedback. So you always like your co-creating it with them. Don't ever create an offer in a silo. You know, on your own in thinking that this is going to be amazing and then no one sees it. And then you put it out there and then you wonder why no one wants it. It's because, well, you actually haven't really made sure that it's what they want. So put it in front of it. In front of your Idol clients. Let them have a look at it and then see if it resonates. Ask them does this resonate with you? Am I missing anything? Is there something else that you need? Have I missed the mark completely? Tell me your feedback. Ask people because this is all part of the early stages of building a business. And then from there, once you go away, tweak it, or you can tweak it once you're on the phone with them. Then you go back. Like, how does this look now? And it's almost like it sells itself, right? Like, Oh, my God, you're in my head. This is exactly what I need. And that's it. So it's not it's not anywhere near as difficult as people make out to be. And it's pretty simple process. Want to kind of get it down pat. And once you've got the offer done, then you can go and take it and connect with more people or people you have done before and get your first clients in that way. That's how it's done. It's not through shouting from the rooftops or anything like that. Especially co-creating with people that you think will be your perfect ideal clients.
Josh Fonger: [00:22:40] So then let's say you have the real job and you get a couple of clients. Let's say you're a coach of some kind. How do you manage the first few clients? Because your first two clients might, let's say, bring in $2000 a month, which is not enough to live on, then you have your job. You're kind of in a little quagmire for a while. What do you do? What do you do then?
Janet Kafadar: [00:23:02] Yes. So as in. Do they take home more clients or do they discuss, do you mean like delivering the coaching?
Josh Fonger: [00:23:08] Yeah making and delivering the services without losing their job. But they can't lose their job in X amount of money. And where did any tips or suggestions for that?
Janet Kafadar: [00:23:17] Yes. Yeah, exactly. So I would say with the coaching, especially with coaching itself, make sure that the coaching offer that you put together isn't long. Don't make it like three months, six months or something like that. Actually make it something really short. Like a month. So even if it's a month's worth of coaching, you meet each week one hour a week or if it's two hours every two weeks or something like that. So you can then manage your time accordingly so that you when you come home from work like. Right. I've got my coaching call at 6:00 p.m. till eight or six or seven or something like that. And you let everyone know in your family, whatever it is, that this is what you're doing and it allows you not to overextend yourself and not overwork yourself. And that's very much what I had to do when I was still working day job and trying to get that patient agency off the ground. I took on really small projects. So I say this for my consulting or for my service delivery causes. Take on small projects, something that you can do. You know, that you can do pretty quickly. That would take you either a week or two to complete. And then you finished and you've done and you go on to the next one. Taking on long projects or long coaching arrangements just means that it takes up so much time. And then you'll also become a bit flat because I thought, my god, still trying to manage work and still trying to manage everything in between. Plus you got your coaching clients as well. Just take on short, small, short term projects and clients to help manage that. And then once you get to a point where you keep doing the same thing, it's getting results for your clients. You helping them. Transformation. You increase the price of that same product. So then you're not having to then, you know, extend it. You've just actually increasingly price. That's what I did when I first, you know, first few cost, I thought I think the first package that I sold was like a thousand dollars. And I kept doing the same thing over and over again when I increase to each new client. I made it fifteen hundred, two thousand, three thousand. I think the last one at that same one was about four thousand dollars or so. And and it felt good for me. So I only had to take two clients for that month. And I think it was about a month or so. And I was at a point where I didn't need it, but I wasn't so heavily reliant on my salary to then help me move forward. So that's my tip to to my clients. It's you know, start off small. And then keep increasing your price for that same package and just have the one package. Don't change. Then create a new one, which is always a temptation. Well, I'm going to change it. I'm going to make this or do something else. No, no, no. Stick with the same thing. Don't change it. Stay on that path. That is your ticket to transition.
Josh Fonger: [00:26:09] Yeah, I love that. So keep it very, very simple. Get really good at delivering that transformation. Raise the raise the price, then build your confidence. We'll be there. Now, I know we're a little at times I have a couple other important questions that I think you might both speak to. This is the plan. Sounds simple. You know, you've done it. lots of people done it. But there is a bigger group, people who will never do it, even though they've learned the steps, they watch the training, they want to do it. You think we should do it? I think it has to do with the, you know, the space between ears. So can you speak to us about the mindset? What things do they need to have go into their mind or what limiting beliefs are they need to kill so that they can actually make this jump? Have you dealt with that?
Janet Kafadar: [00:26:52] Yeah. Yeah, I have. And most the time it does come down to mindset. I also think it comes down to the motivation behind it. So I tend to ask and I ask this in my I my Facebook group, my community has come up a couple of times like, why is it important to you? And that's and that's a valid question to ask because most the time when you get into the rhythm of like I'm working through all the things that you can completely lose sight of. Why is it that I'm doing this? I'll give you an example. Lady in my community, she's been preaching for a while and she went on holiday over the summer and she fell about six, eight weeks, something like that. And she's decided to take a break from trying to get her business off the ground. And I said, this is great. No. Why is it that you've decided to do that? And she said that she wants to just enjoy herself. She's been trying to figure out how a nation, all of that stuff. And it's been really forcing it. And I said. And so she said, I just need to take a break from it just to figure out what's important. And one of the things that she said is I've completely lost sight of why I'm doing this. Why it's important and what my motivation was. Her motivation to start it three years ago was different to what it is now. Things have changed. She's move countries. You know, she's teaching somewhere else, you know, so it's is completely different. So she's just taking a break to to figure out what her next step is. And I think that's people forget that. So come back to why it's important. So for me, it was for my family, my kids, and to also show them that they can do anything that they put their mind to. And if they want to have a business, of their own, that's completely fine if they want to go work for someone that is also fine. But giving them options is showing that, telling them, showing them that there are different ways to to live your life and also to be fully in control of what I do and how I go about living that. So that was important to me. That's always my why I always come back to that. You know, even business owner ourselves, I'm sure you can attest to this as well. Josh, is that you get to a point sometimes like why am I doing this again. Even you find yourself doing something like why? What is this really even important anymore? So so. Yeah. So the people who, you know, read all the things, they all the things, but still not where they are. Yes. It is a little bit of mindset. What? But it's more so. Why is it important? I would guarantee that that's the reason behind it. I'm not quite sure why they're doing it or not as motivated as they once were to kind of get it going. So just give that some thought and mull that over and see what comes up. And if you are still a place where you're feeling as motivated as much by your step, the desire is still there. Then then it's the mindset stuff that's stopping you and kind of stopping you from moving forward.
Josh Fonger: [00:30:01] It's interesting. Motivation then maybe your mindset. Then fears,maybe beliefs. And you've probably seen it. Or at least read Simon Cynic's book. He's got a TED talk on the you know, knowing your why.
Janet Kafadar: [00:30:11] Yeah. Yep.
Josh Fonger: [00:30:13] Foreigners are going to kind of think through because it can't just be about money. Sometimes it is. I know what I get. But I got sort being told in a little a little over 10 years ago as I was in real estate and I'd been laid off and and, you know, basically lost everything and had had two kids. And, you know, and I was like, oh, I need to make some money.
Janet Kafadar: [00:30:36] Yes. That's right. But you need to make money so you can put some food on the table for your kids. Like there's a strong why there. Yeah. Absolutely. That's that. The two are linked. For sure. And so. Yeah.
Josh Fonger: [00:30:51] Definitely. So that get you moving. But beyond that, I mean what you do is very valuable work and I love setting entrepreneurs free similar, very similar work because so many people who are stuck and to see them transform is a beautiful thing. Well, let me a couple. Last question. So what's one thing you want to leave the the audience with, that I didn't ask you about what you think is important for people to know more about you and what you do?
Janet Kafadar: [00:31:17] I think one of the things that I think is important is not overcomplicating. It is easier said than done, but it really is. Some of the things that I've shared earlier in this and in our conversation, are really quite simple. And I think that's in the space of, you know, kind of setting up systems and processes and a lot of the stuff that you talk about as well. We forget the simplicity of, you know, actually picking up the phone and actually calling someone, you know, and calling an organization or whatever it is and just asking, you know, finding the right person to speak to, you know, like, don't forget that that is, you know, bread and butter of any business start over, overcomplicate things or overcomplicate what you want to do. Keep it really simple because you need the simplicity. You do have so many other things going on. You've got a job to work to do. You've got projects that you're doing well. Now you've got your family to look after as well. Keep it really simple, but still allow yourself to move forward as well.
Josh Fonger: [00:32:25] Great advice. Couldn't agree more. We're going to find out more about about you Janet and what you do?
Janet Kafadar: [00:32:30] Yes. Yes. You can find me over at Janet's Kafadar dot com. You can also find me on Facebook. I do. Facebook lives pretty much every other day or so. Well, you can come and find me at my Facebook community. Build your base after dark. Yes. There's the probably the best places I hang out. I email my list every week with shenanigans and stuff that's happening in my life along with business stuff as well. So, you know, I am a mom of three with a business consulting business as well. So I am completely with you as well.
Josh Fonger: [00:33:06] Well, very good. Well, everyone who's listening, especially if you can really relate to Janet's situation with the kids and juggling all these different things. Check out her page, her Facebook page, Web site. And Janet, really appreciate you being on the show today. Everyone's tune in next week to share with you another interview from either one of my previous clients or a business expert like Janet sharing a tool, technique or resource and how you can make more and work less. And also, if you'd like a copy of best selling book Work the System you can download on our Web site. But also you can get a free copy by leaving us a review at leap's review either on what our podcast place you're listening to this or YouTube or our Web site just leaves review and send us an email of that review and to info at work the sysyem dot com. Once a week we draw out a name and we mail out a book, so maybe you can win. So to do that and otherwise we'll catch you next week.