Are you finding it hard to get in front of the right people with your marketing message? Are your online advertising dollars not going as far as they used to? If you’re ready to learn about the new “long tail” marketing technique that yields sales for years to come, make sure to check out my guest Tom Schwab of Interview Valet today. He is a pro at getting your business message out to the world in a way that converts long term. Now is the time to learn how to incorporate this medium into your marketing mix!
Josh Fonger: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Work the System podcast, where we help entrepreneurs make more and work less using systems. And I'm your host, Josh Fonger. And today we've got a special guest. We've got Tom Schwab, who's going to be talking to us about how to break through the noise and get new customers, a new way of doing inbound marketing. So they're excited to have Tom on today. Before we get into time and interview, do you think today's sponsor of the podcast which is trainurl. You all know by trainurl. Trainurl help you document your business. They store your documentation. And if you want to find out more about them and get your free account started, go to work the system dot com slash trainurl and you can get set up right there. All right, Tom. Well, let me read your intro before we get started with the questions. Tom is the author of Podcast Guest Profits, Grow Your Business with a Targeted Interview Strategy. Tom is also the founder and CEO of Interview valet, the category King of Podcast Interview Marketing. OK. Tom, I want to tell us this backstory. How did you get into podcast marketing?
Tom Schwab: [00:01:01] Well, you know, everybody thinks they've got this perfect game plan. The first business plan or their business plan. I always look and say it only makes sense in the rearview mirror. So, you know, I'm an engineer by degree. My first job out of college was run a nuclear power plants. And I think that's why I love the book Work The System when I first read it was a couple years ago, because to me, everything can be systematized if they can teach high school graduates that are like 20 years old how to run a nuclear power plant. We should be able to figure out how to run our businesses. So I did the Navy did corporate America, did sales, marketing. I started my own business, used inbound marketing to grow from a regional player to a national leader and then sold that off. And so when I was in my my sabbatical period between companies, I was helping a couple friends with their inbound marketing, their digital marketing. And one of the things I saw was that blogs weren't working nearly as well as they used to. And that most business owners don't like writing blogs. Right. I've written a lot in my life, but all of them were a homework assignment. They like talking about their industry. So I hypothesized back in 2014 that you could use podcast's interviews, much like we used to use guest blogging a decade ago. You know, instead of me putting a blog on my own site, getting it seen by three people. Thanks, Mom. You know, she always reads my blog. Go on to things like Huffington Post, Wall Street Journal, trade magazines where ever your ideal customers were. So we started to test that. The results we got were amazing. And at first I thought it's a niche, it's a personality. So we tested it, refined the system. Then I came out with a book on it, came out with a course, but I never took the course out of beta. The feedback was good at it. But people that were honest said, you know, you've given me the cookbook, you've given me the videos that go along with it. I don't want to do this. I want to be the guest. You take care of all the rest. And that actually came from a client and became our tagline. And so in the end of 2015, we started a beta test done for you system early 2016. We took it out of beta and it's grown into what is Interview Valet now. And so we're a podcast interview marketing agency. We've got a team of 16 all remote workers. Nobody. Not not everyone wants to live in Kalamazoo, Michigan with me. But we're all here in the United States and we serve about 90 clients at any one time. A lot of authors, coaches, speakers, brands. And really, it's it's the old principles applied to a new way. So I always say that my grandfather would understand what we're doing even if he didn't understand the technology behind it.
Josh Fonger: [00:03:49] So just another medium. So as blogging was, there was the medium from 10 years ago speaking or this is podcasting medium is is the new way to go to get your message out, is that what you're saying?
Tom Schwab: [00:04:00] Yes. And really, it's you know, how do we grow our business from an especially, you know, if it's growing the business? Because there's a difference between making a transaction and growing a business. Right? It's never been easier to sell something online today. All you gotta do is be a penny cheaper than the other person. But don't lie to yourself and say you've grown a business because the next day they're going to buy from the next person that's a penny cheaper. So really, it's like, how do you build that relationship? How do you get that know, like, and trust? And, you know, 50 years ago, it used to be go into the country club and getting introduced by somebody talking to some people on around the golf. Well, now it's, you know, getting introduced on a podcast, talking for an extended period of time. And the great part is that we can do it anytime, anywhere. And nobody has to see my bad golf game.
Josh Fonger: [00:04:51] So let's talk a little bit about the medium, because I think this is important. We talk a little bit offline. I was reviewing your site and so a lot of companies know they need to market online. They need to; They can't be everywhere at once. And so they're trying to scale that way. But how does the interview format like we're doing right now compare to a written piece of content? How does one perform better and how much better?
Tom Schwab: [00:05:15] Well, I think it really defines how you best. Create content and then how other people use it. So our studies have shown that traffic from podcast interviews converts 25 times better than a blog. Now what that means is huge, at first I thought that, well, that's couldn't be true. But when you think about it. If somebody listened to you for thirty or forty five minutes, they're already educated, they're already self-selecting. And if they come to your site, they're a hot lead. But when people say, should I do blogs? Should I do video? Should I do podcasts? I always advise them, do what's easiest for you and then use technology to transform that, right? So we can take this interview here. We can transcribe, but we can have somebody else clean it up. And there's probably five or six blogs in here. We can take a little clips out of it, make audio grabs out of it. We can take, you know, one hundred and forty characters of genius and make tweets out of it. Little things like that. So I think it's really repurposing it. And I don't focus so much on podcasting as I do content.
Josh Fonger: [00:06:25] Mm hmm. Interesting. Yeah. And we're actually doing that at work. The system right now is realizing that I; just like you I'm not a big fan of writing. I don't like to write. But if I can speak, then other people can, kind of produce and take and tailor and just generate a lot of content just from this interview right here. So it's a great, great medium. Now, I've got to believe that a lot of people who listen to this podcast, because not everyone is a author, speaker, coach, consultant. But you know, right before this call, I think I mentioned to you, I was talking to a Baker, Right, who owns a bakery, and she does cakes for weddings and apartments and things like that. How about for someone like that? I mean, she owns a local business. Would podcasting be something that she should consider doing?
Tom Schwab: [00:07:06] Yeah, that's one of the things that you have to look at is the lifetime value of a client. Do they need to know who you are? Is this a transaction or is this a relationship? Now, definitely for a baker. And that's a long term relationship, right. I want to get my anniversary cake there, my wedding cake. All the other things. So I want to know who the person is. Their heart behind it. Their limitation, though it's geographically limited unless she goes national? If I hear her in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and if she in San Diego, I'm probably not going to drive there or fly there to get the cake. But there are other things that she could do to get that word out to be seen as the leader there. One of the great examples that; that I look at is down in Nashville, Tennessee. There's a podcast down there. Oh, I can't think of Andrew's last name right now, but he's a realtor. And he was thinking, should I start a podcast? Should I do it on, you know? New people coming to town? And should I talk to him about the current rates and all the rest of that? And it's like, why would anybody really want to listen to that? And so what he did differently was he did a podcast that focused on Nashville and around Nashville. What brought people to him? People who had moved there, what their experience was. And so he's gotten he's gotten podcasts, interviews with the mayor. He's gotten podcast interviews with football players that just moved there with the Titans and what they love about it. He's gotten once from the hockey team from there, the Predators. And so all of a sudden he's like this person that's in the know in the community. And so now when new players come from the Titans, they just say, oh, just reach out to Andrew, you know, he'll take good care of you. And that's something that he never would've. So you'll think about that from a Baker standpoint. And they could really focus on wedding venues, how to celebrate different things and celebrate their community. And very easily, they could give people access to their platform. One of the great ways to use podcasts is to either focus on your clients that are having success, write just testimonials. Basically, they'll save more nice things about yourself than you will. And it'll sound more authentic. Or the other way is to interview people that could be prospects for your company. So if I've got a list of 52 ideal customers that I would love to talk with, you know, they're going to take my call and say, Josh, I'd love to get on the call with you for an hour so I can talk to you and sell you about my company. I'm going to say no. But if you say, Josh, I would love for you to come on my podcast and talk about the industry challenges you have, what new things you're doing. You know, the CEOs would love that. Now you've built a relationship. Now you can go from there. So, you know, it's content. It's a relationship. It's it's selling. Right. Selling through a relationship. But now we're doing it over the Internet and with free tools.
Josh Fonger: [00:10:09] Yeah. No, it's great. And I've I've used a lot of those techniques with my clients. I've got a investment advisor and he wants to get more people that he can advise. And so he just, interviews successful people who are wealthy, who've done great things in business and interviews them, and then they become his clients. And so it's a great, great mechanism for him to kind of kill two birds with one stone. And I love what the medium is that it's scalable and it lasts for a long time. We've got podcast episodes from years ago and people still listen to them. Is still in the building being really valuable long term. What I think is really important.
Tom Schwab: [00:10:44] It's one of the things that we've learned is the length of the podcasts. Somebody referred to it as Evergreen. I don't know if it's evergreen. Will it? Will it still be meaningful 50 years from now? It's definitely like a can of soup, right? It's got a shelf life of at least five to seven years. And so we always teach our clients part of the processes is don't wish somebody a Merry Christmas. Don't wish somebody. You know, reference, the last election, because that puts a time stamp on it. That makes it seem outdated. The other thing is when you drive traffic, don't always drive them to your home page. Set up a separate welcome page for them, because if I hear an interview four years from now, I know that the home page is going to change. And if I go there and I don't see what I'm going to expect, I'll bounce from that. But if I see exactly what's there, you know, an evergreen page to match the evergreen content, the testing to show that converts so much better.
Josh Fonger: [00:11:45] Let me ask you some kind of in your personal questions about your business, because you didn't take it from from square one or zero idea to where it is now. What kind of systems did you have to put in place so that you weren't doing all the work your yourself but actually able to delegate? What what did you do to make that happen?
Tom Schwab: [00:12:02] I think you know where I come from with, you know, nuclear power. That was I was used to that. But this this industry is growing so fast and our procedures are growing so fast is that it's not that I built those sediment place and walked away from it. I would laugh at the procedures we had two years ago because it's always a process of you set up, you document what you're doing right now and then you give them to highly motivated people to work and then they find better ways with it also. And so, you know, I give all the credit to my team, the leaders that we have, and they always come up with great ideas. And so we're forever building systems, building new databases, because what worked as a team of two, especially when you're a remote team, doesn't work when you're a team of 10. And then when we started to expand from there, we realized that we had to build it from there. So we've been rebuilding the systems at least every year. And what Worley works well with that is it makes it more and more scalable, but it also makes it more profitable. So we're able to deliver better and deliver more efficiently. So one of the things that I would point to is that I don't think as the owner that you're the one that has to do all of it. You get the first version, version 1.0 and then get a team to help you get version one point one, one point two and all the rest of that. And it will look better and work better than anything you had at day one.
Josh Fonger: [00:13:34] This is pretty amazing. Hopefully everyone is listening to this, who are worked the system followers understand that. I just I just met you, Tom, just recently just few minutes ago. And he's he's preaching the message of the need to put systems in place and revealing the results. I mean, you got amazing results of what you've done and put the systems in place. I think for online companies, sometimes they feel like things are too dynamic. Things change too often. Why bother? And you're proving the point that if you allow your team, enable your team to actually work with those systems and make them better, you're going to better company just by being a good leader. And you obviously, obviously did that so.
Tom Schwab: [00:14:11] Well. And there's a there's a couple things. One is I think a lot of times we don't document because we don't fully understand it ourselves. And you have to understand something to teach it. And so even going through like when I wrote the book, it got it out of my head. Got it onto paper. And it clarified my thoughts. And the same thing with when you put procedures down, it may not be perfect, but you've clarified what's in your head. The other thing that I've noticed that the older I get is that learning from your mistakes is painful. You know, in the military, we used to call it checklists are written in blood, make sure it's written in somebody else's blood. And, you know, I don't want to repeat a mistake. They're painful. So if we learn something, let's make sure we we share that through the entire organization. You know, we're all going to make mistakes. The first time is human. The second time that I make the same mistake, that stupid, the third time, you know, I'm just being a masochist at that point. So the processes help us make new mistakes all the time.
[00:15:15] That's a good, good way to put it, new mistake. Good principle. Why Tom, I've get applause would like to thank our sponsor for this particular episode, which again is Trainurl and firstly ask them to be a sponsor of the WTS podcast because I've accomplished so many of my clients. It's simply a place to put every process, policy, procedure, for every role and responsibility in one place. Plus, they are integrating new features all the time tracking, testing, app integrations and telling my go to source. If you're already using Dropbox or Google Drive and you want to move beyond the next level so that you can actually oversee your team in a much more structured way than you would go to Trainurl, you are going to work the system dot com slash Trainurl. Plus I know the team there ,Chris, Jonathan, Chelsea, Sarah, Becky, I can go on. Just a great team. So again, to get a free account, go to work the system dot com slash Trainurl and then you can start documenting your business just like Tom did. Good, OK. So back to the question, Tom. So what is the future of podcasting as things are moving faster? We had blogging ten years ago, and that's obviously still so relevant, but it's changed a lot. What do you see the next 10 years, of podcast? And how is that going to change?
Tom Schwab: [00:16:23] Yeah, I think really it's thinking of it more as content, right? A couple of years ago, I asked my two youngest daughters, what's the pod stand for in podcast. They rolled their eyes and said, I don't know, dad, what's pod stand for? And the thing is, they don't know a world with iPods to them. It's just something they listen to in the car, on their smartphone, on the computer. And I think, you know, right now we've got video on. So does that make it a podcast? Well, if you're listening to it on audio, it does. But, you know, I think more of it is just content. So I think the future is how can we do on demand content that is evergreen, that is easily accessible and is available to anyone in the format they want. So somebody asked me one time, well, you know, podcasts now are listened to by 50 percent of the U.S. population. A new study from Edison Research just showed that they said, well, what do you think it'll get to 100 percent? I thought for a second, I'm like, I don't know that television or radio ever got to 100 percent. Right? 10 percent of the US population is hearing impaired. People that are hearing impaired are not going to listen to me on a podcast. But that doesn't mean that that content can't be transcribed. And for them to enjoy, I think the real future of it is the indexing. Right. And just in early 2019, Google came out and acknowledged that they were indexing all audio now on the Internet. They used to do video. But I think now what the future is going to be is now I can Google and say, you know, work the system podcast and it will show up right there. You know, it'll it'll give me those links. I think in the not so distant future, we're going to be able to go and say work the system podcast Tom Schwab talking about podcast, interview, marketing. And they're gonna go, oh, yeah, go to this podcast at the time, you know, to two minutes and thirty seven seconds. And that's where you should start it, the same way with video that it will give you that spot and really with with indexing all of that in there. It should be doable now and largely available really quickly.
Josh Fonger: [00:18:42] Wow. That's true. So what does that mean any thing for the listeners in terms of how they need to index their own materials, or is I just going to happen by default by companies like Google?
Tom Schwab: [00:18:53] I think it's just going to be by default, right. The whole idea we used to put meta tags on everything and we'd have to tell Google what pictures were. Their getting so smart now, they'll not only tell you what the picture is, but they'll tell you who's in the picture. So I think the same way, the more content we put out there, they're going to index that. They're going to find it. And as people share it, it'll start going up there, too. So to me, it's getting the content out there, knowing that it will be found in the future, too.
Josh Fonger: [00:19:23] So then I guess that brings me to my next question is, so in a sense, there's going to be there's there's mass amounts of content being produced. I've got I've got clients who do content creation. They write hundreds and hundreds of blog posts for clients a month every month. Because. Because how important is to get content for SEO. What? Where does the end game of that? I mean, how do you stand out amongst all of the podcasts that are being released? All the interviews, all of it is is there a certain technique or a certain process to help your clients with that?
Tom Schwab: [00:19:55] I think it comes from the standpoint of the world has changed over the last decade. We've gone from a world of scarcity to a world of abundance. Right? Abundant choices, abundant calories, even abundant clients. Right? It used to be that if you didn't live within 10 miles of me, you weren't my customer. You didn't have the chance of being my customer. And now, really, within the last decade, we've gone from having the ability to have thousands of customers to millions of customers. So I think the thing is not how can I get more customers? It's how can I get better customers? Those people that love what I'm doing resonate with it, that it brings them incredible value and they're willing to pay for it also. So that's one of the things that we teach our clients, is that you want to be authentic in who you're going out there. I would say there's three types of people that listen to me on a podcast. The first, the first ones think Tom is an idiot. I don't disagree with them, but I know one thing. If if you think I'm an idiot, we're probably not going to work well together. Right? There's someone that could be a better, serve you better. I don't need to try to sell you otherwise. Second ones are the ones that go Interview Valet, that sounds interesting, but I really don't need that. God love you. Go on from there. The third ones are the ones that say, Wow, Interview Valet works with people like me. They get success with that. They understand the market. They understand the business. That's who I want to work with. And so I think we always teach our clients to be who you are, talk about who you work best with, who you don't work best with. Be very clear on that, because at the end of the day, you know, I was speaking to an event one time and somebody from the stage said you need to get 50 new leads a day. And I looked as I couldn't take 50 new clients a day like, no, not new clients, new leads. I'm like, why would I want to work a lead or waste somebody else time if they can't be an ideal customer? So from that standpoint, being much, much more focused and being clear of who you are, what you do, and try to attract those people. And one of my there's the best quote on the Internet comes from Rand Fishkin. He's the founder of SEOmoz and Rand is a great guy. He wrote a book called Lost and Founder, but his tweet was the best way to sell something today is not to sell anything, but to earn the respect, awareness and trust of those who might buy. And that's what we're doing on a podcast right now.
Josh Fonger: [00:22:29] Yeah, I like that quote. And based on everything you're saying about the future, it really comes down to just being exactly who you are authentically and selling to exactly who you want to work with. Because there are so many options, so many choices out that there's really no point in diluting your message is really no point trying to chase everybody because you could be so laser focused.
Tom Schwab: [00:22:53] There's a great book called Legends and Losers by Christopher Lochhead and I love one of the quotes that he has in there. He said competitions is for losers. And it's so true, right? If we get in a race and there's eight of us for 100 hundred yard dash. Well, I know you're going to beat me, but there's going to be seven out of those eight people that are a loser. If I come in and I say I am the best lawyer in the United States. Well, it's either me or the other million people that are that are lying so that that whole idea of competition. But if I can say I am the best person for helping coaches, author, speakers grow their business with targeted podcast interviews, it's like, OK, I can understand that if I come and say I'm the best at marketing now, find the best at PR. No, you've got a really niche down and tell people what you can do with excellence.
Josh Fonger: [00:23:47] So I've got a couple other unique questions that maybe just apply to me, but I'm sure other people will get some value out of them. So let's say you're doing a podcast. You say you to a podcast, but you're afraid no one's going to actually listen to it. Any, any techniques to actually get more people to listen to it or why? What point is it worth doing it? Any ideas on that one?
Tom Schwab: [00:24:07] I think ego at times, you know, the ego is the enemy, Ryan Holiday has it tattooed on his arm. I think if you would look at it and say, would I go across town to talk to 10 people? Would I drive across there to do it? Sure. You know, when I drive across state to talk to one hundred ideal customers, Yeah. Would I jump in a plane to talk to a thousand of them. Most people would say yes. Well, a lot of people would say, no, I'm not getting on stage. I'm an introvert. But then we get to a podcast or a social media post or a blog and say, well, you know, not even a thousand people watch this video. Well, it's it's the impact and not the number. And so if you know, if you've got a very focused podcast, if you've got a very focused audience, you can't really go by the numbers. You have to go by the impact. And from that standpoint, too, is like not always, can you say the impact will come immediately? Right? I think we've gotten so. So trained with Facebook advertising. Well, if I put a dollar in, I should know the next day. What's going to happen. You know, it's like building the system. I built the system today. How come I'm not getting all the benefit tomorrow? Well, it's like planting a seed. It just just planting it and staring at it and complaining won't get that tree to grow. But when it grows, you're going to have more apples out of that, more fruit than you know what to do with. So I think trusting in the process and knowing that if you communicate value, if you give value out there in a world that people are going to find that maybe it won't be tomorrow. But I think it's really important to play the long game in these things. I said before, it's never easy. It's never been easier to do a transaction. It's never been harder to build a business.
Josh Fonger: [00:25:57] Yeah. No, I totally agree with you. I think it's people who are mature business owners that understand this. They're playing the long game and they don't need the sale to happen tomorrow. But they understand what they're building. They're building assets. So you're doing you're building assets out there. They're going to pay you back. And maybe ROI low the first month and then it hits a break even at month three. But then after, after month three, it's cash flowing that asset. Same with systems, building systems. Right. I mean, I'm sure the documented, documented systems you built, your business didn't pay very much the first few months. I mean, but now they're they're really they have a life of their own and they're building up your company to a point that would never happen if you just didn't start. So thats, I totally, I totally agree with that. A couple of last minute questions here. So let's say that you're listening this and you're thinking, yeah, I do want to get on some podcast episodes. Are there any techniques that they should think about in terms of getting on episodes like do they need to build up their credibility for us? They need to have some kind of they, they need to write a book? How do they get to get on shows?
Tom Schwab: [00:26:59] So this is one of the things I get asked most about what's the secret to getting on a podcast? And let's see if you agree with this. There is no secret. But think about put yourself in Josh's position right now. Put yourself in the host position. Who likes a cold call? I get pitched to be on my podcast about twice a day and every pitch starts the same way. Tom, we love your podcast and would love to be a guest. It's only one problem with that. Josh, I don't have a podcast. So if you're going to lie to me from the very beginning, tell me I'm pretty right? No. Podcasters want to have three types of people on their podcast, friends. They're friends of friends and people they want to be their friends. Nowhere did I say in their cold pitches. So think about it. OK. You want to get on a podcast? Well, first of all, listen to the podcast for a while. Make sure you understand it. Do you have value that you can give? Gary Vaynerchuk talks about jab, jab, jab, right hook. I missed a couple of jabs in there. I look at it as. Serve, serve, serve, serve, ask. So if you want to be a guest on a podcast. First of all, listen to it. Think of what could I offer the audience? What could I offer the host? Listen to the podcast. Leave a rating and review. Every host looks at the ratings and reviews. If you listen, if you put it in there, they'll know who you are. Listen to the podcast. Comment on the social media. Share the social media. Mentioned the podcast host in there we're all vain. We all listen for our names. After you've done that, after you've served, served, served, then reach out to them and either through email, through social media and once again, don't ask yet serve. Right. Josh, I love the podcast. I appreciate this. I enjoyed this episode. This is what I learned from it. And this is what I think you could. I could offer your audience. It's not like I have a book and I really want to leverage your audience to sell my book. That is an awful ask. Your goal on being on a podcast is to make the host look like a genius for having you on, because if you do that, don't promote you better than they have you ever could. So serve, serve, serve. And then that host will ask you, you know, could you would you like to be on my podcast? So a lot of people will start robo pitching. First, do no harm, right. They'll say I I I pitched a hundred podcasts and one of them said yes to me, you know, I got on five podcasts. Chances are those are five podcast s you don't want to be on. And of course there's no podcasts. And all of a sudden if you have a bad pitch that is going around. We talk amongst ourselves. We shared amongst ourselves. And you could really shoot yourself in the foot. The flip side is you get on one podcast and do a good job. Then at the end you say, you know Mr. Miss Host. Do you know anybody else that I could offer value to if they introduced you to podcast hosts and so on and so on? Your dance card is going to be filled.
Josh Fonger: [00:30:12] Very good. Yeah, great. Great advice. And taking some notes here and some mental notes about what we're going to do. Give my team to do. To get us on more or of course, we could just hire, you guys. Which is also something we should talk about afterwards. I want to leave you with kind of a final question for you. To get good at whatever I forgot to ask you. So anything that I forgot to ask you. You want to make sure that the Work The System audience knows about here. Here's your chance.
Tom Schwab: [00:30:35] Well, I would say what you know is ordinary to you. And it's amazing to other people. Right. You're listening to this and going by. Yeah. Tom's got something to share. Josh has got something to share. But but not me. I'm not an expert. And somebody really helped me this. It was a lawyer. He says the legal definition of an expert is someone that knows more by their training, their education, their experience than the average person. So if you're running a business, you are the expert in that business. If you're in an industry, you spend more time in that industry than the average person. So you're an expert in that industry. It doesn't mean you're the only expert. It means you're an expert. And so what, you know, could help other people. It could help yourself. It could help your business. And I used to be able to say, well, I live in Kalamazoo. I can't help other people. Oh, it's so easy now to to start your own podcast, to write a blog, to do a video, to be a podcast guest. That to not help other people with what you know is actually just hurting yourself. So might my call to action to everybody is what you know, it's ordinary to you. It's amazing to other people. Share that so you can help yourself and help other people. And if we can help you in any way, do that, we'd be thrilled.
Josh Fonger: [00:31:57] So great. Great ending there in times where people find you if they do want some help. Where do they go?
Tom Schwab: [00:32:03] Yeah, well, the easiest the easiest thing and this we have found on testing, always send him to that dedicated welcome page. Right. We talked about that before. So if you go to interview valet with a V dot com. Forward slash WTS. Work the system. You're going to see what a welcome page looks like. You can copy that, too. And I'll also put all of the things in there that we talked about. There's a checklist on the nine secrets to getting booked on your first podcast. There's free copy of my book podcast, Guests Profits. I sell a lot on Amazon. I give more away almost like Sam on that. And so and then also I'll put all of my, my contact information. So you don't have to figure out which Tom Schwab in Kalamazoo it is. And then I'll put my calendar link if I can help you in any way. Please just go to interview valet dot com forward slash w t s for work the system.
Josh Fonger: [00:33:02] Perfect! All right, Tom. Well, I appreciate you being on the podcast. I learned a lot. I think a lot of notes here. Looking forward to seeing that page up there. Probably listening and stay tuned. Next, we have another expert on like time or a past guest or an author speaker. Someone help you grow your business? Obviously, you can make more work, less with systems. Also, before we sign up today, that book behind me, that book Work The System, that best selling book that Sam wrote, you want a copy of that mailed to you, signed by Sam himself, then leave us review, go to wherever you're watching this, whether it's on YouTube or it's iTunes or any podcast player, leave us a review. Email us a picture of that at info at work the system dot com and we'll be picking out one name a week and mailing them a copy of the book. All right. Thanks, everybody. And we will see you next week.