Ditch Upwork! Learn Why Filipino Outsourcing Is Good for Business

Worrying about fitting all your daily tasks into your packed entrepreneurial schedule? Looking for solutions for long-term time management? Considering hiring a remote worker to lighten your load? In this episode, John Jonas—“The Rockstar of Virtual Assistants”—breaks down the benefits of outsourcing from the Philippines. John, director of onlinejobs.ph, founded the world’s largest online Filipino outsourcing platform. Having helped over 100,000 employers find remote talent, and with more than 5 million résumé submissions, John is an eloquent authority on enhancing business systems with remote hiring. He also practices what he preaches: working less (17 hours/week!) and making more.

In this episode we discuss:

● How to reduce your workload by leveraging outsourcing services in the Philippines.

● Why, how, and where to focus training efforts to truly maximize the benefits of outsourcing.

● Challenges entrepreneurs face when taking that leap from contracting to outsourcing.

We hope this episode helps you to learn the value of outsourcing as a tool to reduce bottlenecks in your business systems.

Host:                Josh Fonger

Guest:              John Jonas

Duration:         35:59



Josh:    0:00-0:38            Welcome to the work the system podcast where we help entrepreneurs make more and work less using systems. And I'm your host, Josh Fonger. Today we have a special guest, we have John Jonas, John has helped thousands of entrepreneurs succeed in their business by outsourcing effectively. He created the world's largest website for finding Filipino virtual assistants, which has over 5 million resumes and over 100,000 employers from around the world. Alright, John. Well, before we get into the questions I have for you got a lot actually right here. Why don't you tell me your backstory, how you became the kind of the rock star of virtual assistants.


John:    0:39-02:35          So, like, 15-16-17 years ago, I was running an online business and I you know, this is the early days of stuff and I was working 50-60 hours a week and, and I just knew like there, there's more to be done than I can do myself. And I got a good reference to where and I tried like hiring people in India I tried hiring people on at the time it was E-lance. And then oDesk came along and then they merged into Upwork. So I tried, I tried hiring a contract worker or Freelancer and, and it just didn't work for me and I can get into why I tried hire local workers and nothing worked. And someone gave me a reference to where I could hire someone in the Philippines. And he told me a little story about it. And it really just kind of gave me hope that, you know, maybe there's something different out there. And, and so I hired this guy, which was super different, because he gave me a reference where I could hire someone full time. And that was, like, weird, you know? And I did, it took me a couple months to kind of get through the hurdles and I hired this guy, and it completely changed my life. All of a sudden, I had this guy whose full time job was do anything I asked him to do. And, and all I had to do was just teach him and over a over a period of time, I realized like I'm replacing myself every time I teach. Gotta do something I have, I'm getting more done, and there's less for me to do. And he still works for me. And it's amazing, right? And, so he that just so you know, this was 2005. It's almost 2020, or it's almost 2020 now, and it's almost been 15 years, he still works for me today. And so that's kind of how I, that's how I got started hiring these people. And it and it was, it was amazing. And then people wanted to know, like, how are you doing this? Why you're doing this? Why is this working so well. And so that's when I started teaching it.


Josh:    02:36-02:56      So, let's juxtapose the two options. So you have an option. Let's say you have some work needs to be done, but it's only going to take you 10 hours a 10 hour project, would you recommend taking a 10 hour project and trying to find a contractor or CDs or rethinking your business to come up with maybe more long term stable work and hire someone as like an actual employee employed?


John:    02:57-03:54        Yeah, so a 10 hour project. By I mean, that exists, but really it's either a 10 hour thing that you're going to do over and over again. Or it's a 10 hour thing that happens one time, and what are you doing in your business? Like, why are you doing this thing that you're selling time for money? Right? So for me, it's all it's always. Anytime I go to do something in my business, it's always about, like, who's gonna do the work here? Is it gonna be mirrors? Is it gonna be someone else, because if it's something that I have to do, I'm not gonna do it. And that's how I work 17 hours a week. So any opportunities we're going to pursue are going to be things that other people can do that I see like, I can get other people to do this for me. So the goal here is, if it's a 10 hour project one and done, you're out, it's gonna take 10 hours and like done. And that person that you hire, you can't use them to do something else in your business. Boy, that's a lot of turnover in a business, especially in a small business, you know?


Josh:    03:55-04:10        Yeah, I think that's definitely the hidden away. So maybe you've calculated what that is, but the amount of time to find someone, you bet them and train them and teach them and happen to do a short term project is a painfully and efficient,


John:    04:11-05:26        It's too and, you know, it takes the same amount of time and effort to hire a long term permanent, talented person as it does to hire a temporary part time contractor. You know, it same amount of effort on your part. The difference is when you get started working with that person, a temporary contractor, you know, like your brain will limit what you will allow them to do because, you know, oh, any effort I put into this person is wasted effort, because they're not going to work for me in three weeks. Whereas when you hire someone full time, long term, or even part time, but the goal is its long term, like this is a permanent position. Your brain will start to do weird things where you'll be like, Hey, I wonder if I could get him to do this thing that I do every single day. And it takes some thinking and it might take some training, but can I get him to do this thing and then I don't have to do it ever again. And that was where things started to change for me where I was like, I got this guy and his jobs do anything I asked him to do, and he's gonna be with me. I mean, I didn't know this at the time when I first started, I didn't realize how loyal the people in the Philippines were, but he still works for me 15 years later. So anything I can teach him is time well spent, like time better spent than anything I could be doing.


Josh:    05:27-05:59        I think is very interesting to get to your place and not ever wants to work 17 hours a week, but I think it's sounds pretty nice. Like you've chosen strategically, every new thing you're going to build on to your business, every new direction you're going to do has to be a piece that wouldn't require you to have to do it. I think that's if those of you who want to make more work less like Sam's book behind me, that's probably a good nugget to think of. If it's something that, hey, if I do this is gonna be something that I'm another person to do the rest of my life. Maybe it's not a good thing to add your business strategy.


John:    06:00-06:36        And it's not even it for me it's not even like that that was the starting now it's beyond that we're like, is this something I can be involved in? In the beginning.  Initially I can but is it something I'm gonna have to be involved in long term? Or is it something that people expect me to be involved in? Like, are they so people always want recruiting? Like recruit someone for me? Know I want you to do the recruiting. No, you know, I'm not going to recruit someone for you know that's me trading time for money and trading time for money isn't doesn't build passive recurring income, you know, it's not a system.


Josh:    06:37-06:47      So tell us about your main business now. So it was it was your main business 20 years ago, what it is now or as it morphed, and you've done a couple different things.


John:    06:48-08:34      So I've done all kinds of things. When I when I started hiring these people, I was running affiliate websites, okay, I actually had quite a few things going on. I had some information products I was selling, I was running some affiliate products we were doing some arbitrage with like Google AdSense and Google AdWords. So I've done it, I've done a whole bunch of stuff over the years at, at some point, when I started teaching how to hire these, these people in the Philippines, there wasn't a good way to find them. And, and so people were asking, like, how are you finding these people? How do you,  you know, how do you find it and, and it kind of sucked, like the option then was go to an agency, they'll give you the person you're going to hire. If that person works sweet, if they're not exactly what you wanted, then well, too bad. You know, like, and then they, so I at the time, I was paying them $750 a month, they were paying the worker $250 a month, which you know, fine, right? Today, that's more like 1500 a month and 500 a month is not the worst thing, but it just didn't sit super well with me. And when my, when the workers found out I know it didn't sit well with them. And that at some point, I was like, dude, there's a better way. I'm going to try and start a job board so that I can recruit someone for myself and maybe I can get like a couple hundred resumes in it, and so that I could find someone myself, right? Well, I read a couple hundred resumes when I when I put it up in 2009 like in the first month, the Filipinos just went crazy over it because, like it's a third world country and work is hard to find they're especially long time full, long term full time work, which is it's very much desired there. I had no clue that it would grow like it has grown like crazy on both the workers and the employers.


Josh:    08:35-09:13        So let's, let's juxtapose and if you can play devil's advocate, or at least I will, so, you want to bring in someone and  I've interviewed people who run agencies who have you know, they have a whole team of Filipino workers, they're 20-50 hundred and they would say, hey, you should go through an agency because then you have overlap. You have multiple people that that you're going to know your work. You're always covered. If somebody leaves, you still have the background and safety, the law. And of course it costs more. And you're saying, maybe better just do it yourself and find that dedicated person who you can really become loyal to and can really know your business. What were the kind of the pros and cons with that?


John:    09:14-  So what you're talking about is still is still a contract worker, like, you go to an agency, okay? So if you want to, let's talk about customer support, right? You're gonna go through an agency, so you have overlap and redundancy, and blah, blah, that's fine. But none of those people work for you. Those people work for the agency. Which means the only thing you can teach them is whatever system like fully complete system you can put together, which is awesome if you can do it, if you can put together a full complete system behind it. That's great. What I what I've seen over the years is most entrepreneurs can't do it. It's so daunting to put together a full system all at once. That people just won't do it. Whereas if so you let's say you hire two or three Filipino workers, you want to cover your around the clock. This is exactly what we have a cover around the clock customer service. 24/7. Great. So you hire up person, you have them work an eight hour shift, you hire another person haven't worked an eight hour shift or you have started having them overlap, right? You hire four people. Your costs are a third. You teach them stuff when they mess up. They work for you. And so you say, hey, like, this is how we can do this better. Or, hey, this is this is different, right? When they're working for you. Here's my experience in agencies. The first person that I hired, the second person I hired was a programmer. He was amazing, like the best programmer I've ever seen. I graduated from college of computer science. And I would put him up against anybody in the world. And a couple months into working for me, he quit, because he said, look, I can't deal with the office politics here. And I was like, that's completely unacceptable. There's no way you I there's no way I'm going to lose you. You know, especially not something that's my fault, right? And so that was that was like, the kind of the other side of this was like, I had this really great guy and there was someone else in between me and him. And that’s not the problem right? So, so the redundancy and stuff is all good and fine. What I find is most people if, you're not working with the same person every time, like it's, it's not the same person then you can't teach that person something because you're going to get someone else tomorrow. And if you're getting someone else tomorrow then there are nuances in every business. If that if that person tomorrow doesn't know the same nuances the person today knew that is so frustrating.


Josh:    11:48-12:05        So a lot of it has to do with control and that's a big, big part of our messages. You want to have control and my business partner that's his whole thing is he doesn't hire anyone part time. It's all full time. It's all under his roof. Because he wants them to be dedicated and vice versa, he's gonna be dedicated to them. That's very interesting.


John:    12:06-12:25        I'm the same way I have 26 people, they all work full time. I don't. I want someone who works for me and only for me, because if you're working for someone else full time, and you're working for me part time, that means your, your mental energy, like your creativity, your great work is going there. It's not coming here. Right?


Josh:    12:26-12:42        Yeah. And I think like there's also the aspect of, I guess, loyalty and control. And so you could probably, I don't know what you pay for people, but you could pay them more if dedicated to you full time, as opposed to them getting a percentage of a percentage down the road.


John:    12:43-13:41        Yeah, so that's an interesting thing with the Philippines.  The percentage of if you do this, I'll give you a percentage of the profit, whatever it doesn't work in the Philippines. That is not an incentive in the Philippines. So I'll tell you I have 26 full time people they make between 450 and like 1700 dollars a month for full time work and on the lower end you have like data entry people or people that aren't really skilled in anything right on the high end I have like really good programmers or a great graphic designer or a really good Facebook ads person and then all kinds of stuff in between you know, like if you read the blog at online jobs.ph I didn't, I wrote very few of those. But people in the Philippines are writing it and they're English is so dang good. So, but they all work full time like you said and that way it really changes things that that full time versus part time work.


Josh:    13:42-13:55        So what is the barrier with regards to language or is there one because you have different time zones, and English and other first language. Have you run into any problems or any simple solutions that people need to be aware of here in the US?


John:    13:56-14:53      This is not an issue. It's not a thing. So like the government mandated years ago the English be a primary language. So I'll give you an example. I've been to the Philippines once. It was in 2010. That was the last time I was there. I was in a hotel in Manila and I went down to the front desk and there's two people arguing they're both Filipinos, the person behind the desk and the customer. They're arguing in English. And I was like, What the? And you know, we go walk around and street signs are in English and like the concrete, like the manhole or the middle manholes are all in English. And what since I've learned like, math, in a lot of elementary schools is taught in English. So they try really, really hard and you go to online jobs.ph and you'll find everything's in English. There's nothing. There's nothing. There's no reason to learn. They call it Filipino.


Josh:    14:54-15:13        So what about cultures because their ability to outsource other countries really anyone anywhere in the world? Have you noticed? And this would be kind of just grouping people into certain classes? But do you notice differences between Filipino workers compared other cultures?


John:    15:12-18:30        Yeah, so there's I mean, you're right. This is like grouping people into stereotypes right? But what there's a set of cultural differences that in the Philippines that when you combine them makes a really good situation that doesn't exist anywhere else. So first of all, they'll be honest with you and honest to the point where my guys have my credit cards, they have access to my paypal account, they have access to my personal email account. Now, obviously, don't go giving someone who's brand new, something that you're not comfortable giving them and get yourself you know, ripped off, but I've helped hundreds of thousands of people do this over the years, and I've seen very, very few circumstances where someone in the Philippines tried to steal something. And usually when they did, it was because the employer tried to get work done and not pay that person. So there's a there's a culture of honesty, especially with foreigners. So that's a really big deal. They're very loyal and we've already talked about this like loyal to a fault. Like when you when you start working for them, one of the first things people want to know is like, oh man, you're gonna hire this guy and the first better job offer he gets he's gonna jump ship. And that's not the case in the Philippines. So I had this girl one time and I was like, Hey, I'm gonna you're gonna start interacting with customers on Facebook. And I just want you to know that you're gonna start getting job offers because people know you work for me, right? And I talked about you they know you're amazing. And she says to me, Oh, don't worry. So I get job offers every single day I'm not going anywhere. And that's, that's how they are right? So they're super loyal. They speak American English, which is a big deal. They have computers and internet access, which means they can work from home so all of my 26 people work from home. And then they're not entrepreneurial, which is a super interesting thing with the Philippines. So a lot of people are running an online business. People are like scared like, what? What can I teach this person? Or what shouldn't I teach this person so they don't steal my idea, right? Well, that's not a thing in the Philippines. They don't want to steal your idea. So you kind of combine all these things together with the fact that the Philippines so this is interesting, the Philippines has been under foreign rule most of their existence, right between Spain and Japan and the US helping and now they're ruling themselves. They are very pleasing and I don't want to say subservient, cause that's not right. But they look up to foreigners. And so as a foreign boss, you kind of elevate their social status among their peers. And so you combine all these things together, what you get is a situation where it's hard to find a job in the Philippines. They get a full they get a full time long term job, they're working for a foreigner, they elevate their social status, they're making more money than most of the people they know are making. And they'll do whatever they can to make you happy. As long as you treat them well, and that is really critical, like you have to treat them well, you have to gain their trust. So a lot of us go into this thinking like, I don't know if I can trust this person. And the reality is you should be thinking, what do I need to do to get them to trust me? If you do it, you just hired the same thing as having a local worker at you know, I don't know, a fifth the cost. And except they're loyal, like, there's no loyal in the US anymore. Right?


Josh:    18:31-18:56        Yeah, there's an opportunity to jump ship here. People do. So what about for those people who are thinking about this and they're exploring the idea mentally? Are there some first steps they have to do to prepare for this? Like, do they have to build some kind of training or systems first, they need to change their technology they need to build up a series of tasks ready to go or do they just jump in and, and figure it out as they go?


John:    18:57-22:17        So everyone's different, right? And there's no There's no right or wrong way to do this, but I'll tell you what I see people succeed the most and, and this is backwards than what most people tell you to do or what most people do. So if I, if it were me thinking about this, I'd make four, I make I make four lists, and not even you don't even have to write these down because people hate writing crap down, right? But more or less things I know how to do and things I'm good at. Things I know how to do, but I don't like doing, things I don't know how to do but I know I should be doing and things that I don't I don't know how to do and I'm not interested in.  So what most people do is they when they outsource, they go to number three, and number four things I don't know how to do. And that's fine. But think about this. You're working 50 or 60 hours a week. You want to hire someone to build your website because you don't know how to well, building website isn't that simple. It's not just like, oh, build me a website. There's 1000 decisions that go into it. Right? And if you don't know how to do that, if you don't know how to make those decisions, you're not prepared to make those decision. You just brought yourself 10 more hours a week of work for however long forever, right? Because,  you don't just build a website. If you just build a website and leave it alone, it dies, like something that you have to maintain it, right. So if you were to take the opposite approach, and pay specifically out of box number one, preferably or box number two, yes, box number two, just things I know how to do, but I don't like doing.  Right? So if you take that and go hire someone specifically for that, like, oh, so the first thing I did I know how to do article marketing. I'm, good at it. But I hate it. I hate writing the articles. I hate submitting the articles. I hate creating the links. I hate doing this. But I know it's super effective. So I hire someone who I can teach to write articles and submit them and do the whole process. So here's the difference and what I found the first time I did this, I hired someone on on E-lance there to write articles right? 50 articles for me. Sweet! I got the 50 articles back and then the sinking feeling came like now I have to do something with these articles. And like I paid for these, I better do something with them and I hate this process. So hire someone in the Philippines. I don't care about those 50 articles write the article. Oh, sweetie wrote a good article. And I had to work with him to get it right. Okay, now, go submit it here. And let me show you make a short video of how to do that. Okay, you didn't do it quite right. But let me correct that. Now create links in these videos now. Right headers, and now right resource boxes. And now let me start to teach you SEO, because I know these things, but I don't like it. And all of all of a sudden, all of these tasks get off of my plate. And so now I'm working 50 hours a week. It takes me five extra hours to teach this stuff or work 55 but then he takes five hours off of my plate. So now I'm working 45 hours a week. And then you do it again. And you do again, and you do it again. That's how I got down to the four hour workweek. Which just isn't enough for me and so I've been at about 10 or 17 hours a week for like, 10 years now. So, so my goal, my advice is hire someone to do something you know how to do, and teach them how to do it.


Josh:    22:18-22:24        Interesting. Yeah, that is contrary to most people's thinking, I think hire someone to do something you can't do or don't know how to do.


John:    22:25-22:59        And I do have a caveat in that. So the exception for that is if you're really good at sales, if that's your thing is sales, keep doing sales, hire people to do other stuff, because sales is the only thing that matters, right? Like, that's how you make money in a business. You make sales, right? If that's what you're so dang good at is making sales keep making sales, right? Hire people to do other stuff. If that's not your main thing, like I was a programmer. Programming doesn't make money. Like, that's not you know, so hire a programmer.


Josh:    23:00-23:22        That's interesting. Now, what about the, let's say you go through this list up here for lists, and you really have, I don't know, eight hours of work 10 hours of work a week, kind of lined up and you're thinking, well, gosh, should I bring out someone full time? And then just hope I can fill their schedule? Or do you bring out someone part time and hope that over the next six months, John, you fill it up?


John:    23:23-  So this is an interesting thing that people don't think about, and you wouldn't think about it until you've experienced it. So I don't care. You can hire a full time or part time, but what you shouldn't do is pay hourly, don't hire someone hourly. Here's why. If you hire someone hourly, and they do your 10 hours, you don't give a crap if they're not working anymore. You can you can continue to be stuck inside your email. If you hire someone full time and you have 40 hours a week of work that they can do, and  you only give them 10 hours of work. You can't just continue to be stuck in your dumb email. You know, you have to you have to step away and think about your business like, I got to give this person 30 hours more a week, more work per week, what can I have them do. And this is where your brain will start transitioning from being the grunt worker in your business to becoming the CEO, where you, you have to work on your business now. Instead of just continuing to do the menial tasks that you're doing inside your business, you have to step away because you're responsible for that person's time. And so what I really recommend is full time or part time, whatever, I don't care, a full time is more effective, but hire someone on a salary. And when you do that, your brain will force you to start working on your business as you as they finish their tasks. The other side of it is like, Oh, I only have eight hours of work to do. And when you have someone that has extra time, you'll realize all kinds of like, what if I could have them do this no matter what if, you know you'll, you'll start to figure out all kinds of the guide someone tell me. I didn't realize I didn't think I had enough work to keep him busy full time. And once you start getting someone working for you full time, then you realize how many things there are to do.


Josh:    25:15-25:35        Yeah, that's amazing how that works. Your mind was like, hey, you know, but, and also things you should be doing. Like, I never done this before. It's not because I shouldn't do it because I didn't have time. Now I have time all of a sudden, and all those things in the back of your mind that I've just been sitting there, kind of you haven't even wanted to think about them because you knew you couldn't do them then.


John:    25:36-26:00        Yeah, you should be so this is my thing is implement everything, implement everything, you know, just don't do the work yourself. You know, like, I feel guilty because I'm not posting on social media. Well, that's dumb. Go find someone to post on social media for you. That's really simple. You know, I feel guilty because I'm not bettering these leads. I know how to generate these leads. Well get someone to generate the leads for you. It's not that its not that hard.


Josh:    26:01-26:23        What is the kind of friend I can't think of what he calls it. But there's this time period between hiring somebody, and in a point where they actually hit breakeven, we're actually useful for you. And they're, they're making, you know, making their money's worth. What is that time period? How long does it usually last? How much that usually cost for most people that? Were you just throwing money and time away and you haven't actually recouped yet?


John:    26:24-27:06        So for me, it was like three hours when I started. And for I think, for most people, like if you don't have someone working for you, it's if you're if your business is making a little bit of money, and there's some marketing that you can do, it's probably really, really quick. I mean, you go hire someone at $500 a month for full time work. You know, like, I don't know, that's $3 an hour. You know, like, how, what tests do you have in your business that's worth more than $3 an hour, you know, or what tests are you doing that's worth more than $3 now, all right. What you know? So it's that period is not very long for most people.


Josh:    27:07-27:24      Well, then what is the reason why people don't make this choice is there? You know, because obviously most people in the US are not hiring, they're not outsourcing even though they've heard of it. It's been around for a long time. What is the sticking point that you found is it was it was it was a mental fear? What is it?


John:    27:25-28:52      I got three things. Number one, number one is not knowing because the only thing you know of is hire a contract worker. Right. And that's a temporary part time thing and it's painful. Number two is fear. Like, if I'm going to be then that was my thing, if I get I got this reference where I can hire someone full time and it took me two months. Because I was like, dude, I don't I don't know if I can afford to hire someone full time. I don't know if they can do really good work for me. I don't know if I can keep them busy. And finally got to the point where I can't not do this. I can't continue doing what I'm doing. You know, so I had to take that leap and it was a leap. Right? And then the third thing is training. And that's, that's probably the biggest thing is I don't want to train someone, like, I'm too busy to train someone, or I'm too busy to find someone, I don't have time to find someone which those two reasons right there is the exact reason you've got to do this. You're too busy. You will never unbusy until you do it. This is how you win busy. So it's, there's the fear of, of responsibility, which is so good. That fear of responsibility, so good. And if you take on that responsibility, it will change your business. And the fear of training like putting in some time, which maybe that's a comfort thing, because that training is working on your business instead of in your business. Like people are so comfortable working in their businesses. They're afraid to step away and create systems, because that's hard.


Josh:    28:53-28:55      It is hard but your people I'm sure this point or crazier systems for you. Right?


John:    28:56-29:06        My minor right. But in the beginning you need to got out it yourself. Right?


Josh:    29:07-29:21      That's so interesting.  What is the future? Where does this go? I mean, because right now the price point is quite low. Do you see any differences to the business, your business strategy or just people as outsourcing strategy over the next 10 years? Or is it going to stay pretty much the same as it is now?


John:    29:22-30:17        I don't know. I'm not much of a visionary. But, I so I'll say that when I started hiring, you could hire someone at $250 a month. And that same person today is $500 a month. Okay. It's significantly more 500 dollars a month is still super reasonable. Right?  And I do see it continued to go up as especially as like the world woke up to what the Philippines is over the last 10 years. Where 10 years ago you you got a call center, it was an India, you that in the US at least you don't ever get someone on the phone in India anymore. Just the world woke up to how good the people in the Philippines are. And now you'll start noticing it to like next time you get someone that is not in the US ask them where they're from. And almost guarantee they're in the Philippines.


Josh:    30:18-30:25        Yeah, so what is the so eventually it's gonna hit equilibrium. So you're still there's still more available workers and there is jobs right now.


John:    30:26-31:02      Oh, for sure. I mean, the Philippines, there's 100 million people in the Philippines. And it's a third world country and they're like their number one export from the Philippines as humans. They ship their people overseas in the hospitality industry. What you see him on cruises as nurses and whatever. They're super caring and loving and they want to make people happy. But it creates this real problem at home where parents aren't raising their kids, because the parents are going overseas. And that's changing slowly as people start to work online. Doing what we're doing.


Josh:    31:03-31:17        So, are there any justified fears? Because you're really making it seem so, so simple and easy? Are there any justified fears for not doing this where you say, you know what, with your kind of business, you really shouldn't do this? Is there any industry or business model? We said, hey, that doesn't work that I suppose,


John:    31:18-32:18        I would say yes. Except I've seen people in every single industry do it. Like, no, I'm in the financial services world, you know, sorry. I've seen so many people in financial services hire people in the Philippines. No, I'm an attorney. Nope,  sorry. I've seen attorneys and doctors and insurance agents and Google and Uber and Canva and entrepreneurs and brick and mortar, like I've seen every single industry hire someone in the Philippines. The real fear is the fear of losing something like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to lose four hours of time in recruiting someone and they're not gonna work out or I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this I'm going to pay, I'm going to hire someone full time, and they're gonna work for me for a month, and I'm gonna pay him five or six or $700. And it's not gonna work. And so I just I'm out five or six or $700. And that's real, right? The other side of it is like, hey, if it works for you, then you just got your life back.


Josh:    32:19-32:24        Yeah, it's unnecessary risk. It sounds like it's like you're thinking small. If you're afraid of losing 500 bucks. It's just one of those things you have to do.


John:    32:25-32:34        Right.  It's a potential downside is like you lost a couple hours or a couple hundred dollars. The potential upside is like you gained hundreds of hours and you know, you got your life back.


Josh:    32:35-32:59        Yeah. Now this sounds exciting. I hope those listening to this who are on the fence are kind of pushed over I told. I told John today that was my goal is to push me because I've had a lot of people working for me, but none overseas at this point. So I said, if you push me over the fence, then you've done a good job. So before we sign up today, what's one thing that I didn't ask you about that you think the audience needs to hear about?


John:    33:00-34:23        How about like, what kind of work? Can you get done? So like I said, I have 26 people on my team. And I have programmers like, full time desktop programmers, mobile programmers, web programmers, front end developers back end developers. Full- time designers, full-time video editor, graphic designer, user interface designer, I have full time writers, full time social media people, customer support, admin, data security, server admin, HR, like, lead generation, anything you can imagine that can be done online can be done in the Philippines, and long as you're willing, and this is this is why I always say there's like there's a caveat. You're just gonna hire. That's not true. You could just hire someone and they can do it all for you right then right? But that's not real, as long as you're willing to work with that person, and show them love, really that's, I mean, show them love, like train them, work with them, give them feedback. You can get anything done. I see people getting, like doing silly thing like ridiculous amount of work with people in the Philippines.


Josh:    34:24-34:29        Okay, well John, where can people find out more about you and your business if they want to embark on this hiring journey.


John:    34:30-35:15        So Onlinejobs.ph is the is the job board to find the people right and like we're not involved there so you're not gonna find me. I'm not going to recruit someone for you. You're going to go on and post a job and the Philippines are going to apply or you're going to go on and contact individuals based on their resumes or whatever. Facebook doesn't fit into my 17 hour workweek. So I don't I don't do it but if you want to get me I am available through email. So if you use the Contact Us link it onlinejobs.ph and you say, hey, this is for John, because it's not coming to me, right? It'll get to me immediately. So, they all know if someone says this is for john, send it straight to me. So if you want to get me that's I'll after anything.


Josh:    35:16-35:59        Cool. Well, John, I appreciate you making that available. And again, everyone, hope you enjoyed this interview with John Jonas. And make sure to stay tuned next week when I'm in another interview with an expert like John, an author or my past clients or one of my coaches, sort of my coaches explain to you how you can make more work less in your business. And if you want a copy of that book right there behind me, WORK THE SYSTEM DOT COM, you can go to WORK THE SYSTEM DOT COM and get a copy of it. Or you can do a review for us at your iTunes or Facebook or YouTube. Leave us a review and email us image that review to info at work the system dot com. We pull one name on a hat a week, and we will mail you a copy of the book. Otherwise everybody will we'll see you next week. Thanks, bye bye.

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